Interview by Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) with Ambassador Koji Tsuruoka, Director-General for Global Issues

June 1, 2007

Interviewer: Director General, thank you very much for your time. I was able to attend a briefing the other day where you went into some detail about the Prime Minister's proposals. Just briefly, the three pillars you talked about--can you tell me about those three pillars, just in brief summary?

Mr. Tsuruoka: First of all, the basic thrust or the motivation that compelled Prime Minister Abe to launch his initiative is to try to invite the whole world together in the effort of stabilizing greenhouse gas concentrations, because this is a truly global issue, and no country can address this alone. It has to be a joint effort of all the countries around the world, and that is why he put three principles as the guiding pillars for how we could address this issue. The first one is a call for all the major emitters and all the countries in the world, in fact, to join us in this effort. In order to do this, he proposes the second pillar, which is diversity and flexibility, because no country is the same. We have all different technological structures, and people have different social lives, and therefore flexibility and diversity have to be respected. The third is the importance of having this be compatible with economic growth. If coping with climate change means sacrificing one's economic growth, then no country will come forward to do this, and therefore this has to be compatible. These are the three principles.

How you do it is through technological development and changes in the socio-economic structure of your own life.

Interviewer: The way that Japan has proposed this--does Japan see it as a special role that it can play in this global development?

Mr. Tsuruoka: We believe so, and that is why again Prime Minister Abe himself is taking the initiative of addressing this issue, both to the world and to the Japanese public as well. One, because we believe that we have always succeeded in living with nature, and coexisting with the green environment that we now have. Second, we have had a very, very rapid economic growth in the postwar period. It has been based on Japanese people's diligence and hard work, but it also was in a way not really addressing the need of sustaining it through environmental protection. We have suffered ourselves with the pollution that affected the lives of the Japanese, and this is an experience that we have gone through in a very hard way through our own efforts. But happily, we are now able to live and coexist with nature. As you can see, the rivers in Tokyo now have the fish coming back. The air is no longer polluted. Children can play around in all safety. This is something that the Japanese public has done through the combination of governmental effort as well as raising their awareness on the environment. We believe that this kind of approach can be usefully applied, or let us say shared, with the rest of the world. That is why we think this may be a historical responsibility for Japan to try to engage itself more effectively in the global effort.

Interviewer: Japan also has quite an extensive research and technological base. Can you talk a little about how Japan would like to apply that to this program?

Mr. Tsuruoka: The energy-saving technologies that we have developed are indeed something that we believe are perhaps top-rated in the world. This is the result of two oil shocks that we experienced. Japan is a very resource-poor country, and we depend very much, or almost entirely, on resources outside Japan, and therefore we need to make effective use of whatever we import. That is why we have developed ourselves a very energy-saving society based on technological development. These energy-saving devices together with the technology could be used, we believe, as a very effective means and as tools for other countries to save their own energy, and that will make their environmental protection compatible with economic growth.

Interviewer: One of the other, sic "addressing the domestic greenhouse gas emissions." How is Japan doing on that score, and how much of a challenge is it into the future?

Mr. Tsuruoka: It is a major challenge, and we acknowledge that this will require a lot of additional effort on the part of the Government and the public and Japan as a whole. We have committed ourselves to deliver to the world the promises that we made under the Kyoto Protocol. This means a minus 6 percent greenhouse gas emissions compared to the 1990 level. We are above that today, and we acknowledge that, and that is why the Prime Minister is launching a national campaign, and he will lead the Japanese public to make further efforts in that regard. So far we have focused our attention on energy industry, steel and other industries that are emitting a large amount of greenhouse concentration gases in their activities. At the same time, we are now extending our efforts to include individual households, office buildings, transportation; those areas that have not been previously covered because of various difficulties. Because we are trying to do this as a national campaign, engaging each individual, each firm, including small and medium firms, we believe that this campaign will produce the expected result.

Interviewer: A long-term goal that the Prime Minister has talked about is a 50 percent reduction by 2050. For Japan to be able to meet a goal like that, how significant would change need to be over the coming four decades?

Mr. Tsuruoka: I think there are two major important changes we need to implement as we approach this target. One is a technological breakthrough. The current available technology will not allow us to move to that target, and therefore we definitely need revolutionary, innovative technologies that will allow us to do that. For example, clean coal technologies. The coal generated powerhouses will no longer emit greenhouse gases. That is one very potentially viable technology that we are currently developing in an international effort with the United States and others. Also, we need to change and promote awareness among the public, because in the end it is the individuals that do control what they do. We are calling for each individual to try to do what they can do best, and that they are saving, and then reuse, recycle, reduce, which is the "three R's" that we are promoting. This will result in generating resources from within. You can reuse resources that you have used once, and that will indeed be a very effective means of moving us forward to this target.

Interviewer: Does it make consideration of about 30 percent nuclear, 30 percent coal, and 30 percent other?

Mr. Tsuruoka: The energy mix is another important means of delivering this target. Nuclear energy is, and will continue to be, one of the main energy sources of Japanese--that is a very important point. At the same time, renewable alternative energies are going to be more upfront, because the technology breakthrough that we are trying to achieve will allow us to depend more on solar energy, on wind-generated electricity, and other alternative sources, and therefore it is a combination of the various technology developments, and also a combination of sources that we will take as these technologies will be promoted.

Interviewer: Is it fair to say that for coal and other fossil fuels that their future will be limited without the technological breakthrough?

Mr. Tsuruoka: I think you are correct, because if we do not achieve the necessary breakthrough, the fossil fuel is going to continuously emit greenhouse gases that we will no longer be able to afford, and therefore we will have to have technology that will mitigate the gas emissions coming from those fossil fuels. At the same time, we are being realistic in acknowledging that fossil fuels are the primary sources of our energy, and that is why when we say compatible with economic growth and environmental protection, we need to promote the technological breakthroughs which will allow us to continue to use the fossil fuels safely.

Interviewer: It appears to be certainly getting positive signs from other world leaders, particularly the United States, heading into this. Is Japan confident that there will be some progress and there will be some adoption of the long-term target?

Mr. Tsuruoka: The Prime Minister has been talking to the world leaders on this subject. He has spoken to President Bush when he was in the United States a few weeks ago, and the two leaders have agreed that they have to join forces in achieving the stabilization of the greenhouse gas concentrations. Of course, the Summit in Germany, Heiligendamm, will focus very much on this important subject. There will be also a summit that will be chaired by the Prime Minister Abe himself, in Toyako, Hokkaido, in the next year. These are a series of international meetings that have the participation of the largest emitters of the world, and the Prime Minister is determined to use these diplomatic occasions to move this agenda forward. We are already seeing very positive signs, as we have the United States President speak about his interest in achieving the balancing or the stabilization of the greenhouse gas concentrations inland, which has not been necessarily what the United States was willing to discuss for quite some time. This was already a progress that we have seen, and we will be discussing this more extensively as we go into the G8 Summit in Heiligendamm, Germany. That will be also followed up having in mind the next G8 Summit in Toyako, Hokkaido. It is not going to be a solution that will come in hand very easily, because this is a complex issue, but we will at least be able to confirm the political will of the global leaders that this is a top agenda issue, and that they will have to invest their own political capital so that the globe will be able to be cool in 2050.

Interviewer: It is very interesting, though. There really does seem to be a move by the United States, Australia, which has been very reluctant up to this point as well.

Mr. Tsuruoka: Yes. Let us see. This is a very complicated issue; it is not something you could really produce from the tips of your fingers. This issue has been with us for quite some time, and unfortunately because the circumstances differ from region to region, the basic philosophy of the approach has also been quite varied. It is about time we tried to bring this all together as a global effort. If not, we will continue to have different approaches in different regions of the world, and that is not going to be very effective, or even productive. We cannot afford to continue to do this divided. We just have to make this more global.

Interviewer: How important is it that--I did not ask you about this in the interview--the China factor being brought into these talks? Is it inevitable, or is there a chance that China would not be involved?

Mr. Tsuruoka: We are expecting that being one of the largest emitters, if not the largest, within a year or two, China is considering this issue not only as an international issue, but more as a national and domestic issue that is directly affecting their own economic development. When we say sustainable development, it does not mean that a country that has to do certain things on environmental protection just to meet the expectations of other countries. It is really in their interests to have environmental protection, because the most affected people are their own nationals. I just cannot believe that the Chinese will not be serious enough to tackle this issue with more strength. We are trying to promote them to do that, and if there is any way that we can help them to do this even further, we will be only too happy to do that. That is why we have a meeting of minds with the Chinese leadership, that this is indeed a very important global issue in which both Japan and China have a responsibility to act. We are not trying to see this in a confrontational, north-south context, because we will all be losers if we continue to have stalemated discussion under the existing framework.

Interviewer: The comments by Premier Wen when he was here indicated--I think he was quite positive about the idea of being part of the next framework.

Mr. Tsuruoka: Yes. We have been in contact with the Chinese officials as we were preparing to lead up to this summit meeting between Premier Wen Jiabao and Prime Minister Abe, and we have reconfirmed our expectation that the Chinese leaders are indeed very serious about climate change and global warming, and this is again not necessarily because they are being watched by the world. It is because this is an issue where they find their interest at stake. China is our own neighbor, and we have a different geographic configuration compared to the other industrialized world, like the United States or the Europeans, or even Australia. You have some distance between the most populous regions, which is potentially the largest emitters of greenhouse gases. We believe that Japan has a special responsibility to address the issue within this region, keeping in mind the global interests that we need to pursue, and that is why the Prime Minister has started to talk about this issue extensively with the Chinese leader, and he also continues to carry this agenda onward, and he will have different meetings with the Asian and Pacific countries. APEC, for example, will be an excellent opportunity to deepen discussion on this issue, and if possible try to formulate a consensus that will bring everyone on board in the APEC context as well.

Interviewer: And that could lead to some interest in the other forums.

Mr. Tsuruoka: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: How do I put it? The political effort seems to now be pointing in a certain direction.

Mr. Tsuruoka: Certainly we welcome very much first of all the priority that both the United States and Australia are publicly placing on this issue. This is a leaders' issue; it is no longer an issue that is talked about solely at the official's level or at the Cabinet level. This is an issue that is on the top priority list of the leaders themselves. The political commitment is the driving engine for addressing this issue. I welcome very much the President and the Prime Minister's commitment to handle this issue in a more serious way.

Interviewer: And the signs from Germany seem to be that it is very keen to get something substantial to come out of this meeting as well. Is that a driving force, or is it a little bit difficult, a bit ambitious?

Mr. Tsuruoka: It certainly is a driving force, because the President of the G8 is very committed to achieving a result out of this meeting. The difficulty is to have consensus that will indeed be meaningful in bringing the G8 forward in achieving the ultimate goal of reduction of greenhouse emissions in the long term. How will you move toward this process may be different from country to country, and I think we will have to discuss this more. Then, it is not going to be the only summit that will address this issue, as I was saying, because this is going to go on to the next G8 Summit, ultimately at Toyako Hokkaido. I think we need to see this as a process, and the process is important, so that it will allow all countries to contribute more. I think we will have to continue moving forward, because if you have a stalemate, then you will start having leaders losing interest in addressing this issue.

Interviewer: It has to be open to be discussed, more than anything else, rather than to say "This is the plan agreed on."

Mr. Tsuruoka: I am sure that there will be a lot of discussion based on the position of different countries, and the discussion will be probably--I can even say it will be--more extensive than ever, especially when you think of the eight leaders around the table using their time to do this, this will be unprecedented resources that of course the leaders will put in, and that, by definition, will produce something substantial.

Interviewer: It will be very interesting. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. We may speak again in the future, I suspect.

Mr. Tsuruoka: Sure.

Related Information (G8 Summit 2007 Heiligendamm)
Related Information (Cool Earth 50)


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